Fascinating! Yes, I've long wondered why online rhetoric by people like incels (often designed to troll, provoke, get attention, etc) is taken so *literally*! I think I read an answer here: because those accusing incels of being terrorists (or potential terrorists) are blind to their own hypocrisies when they likewise abuse others. "Death threats for me but not for thee," etc etc.

Furthermore, the assumption that online rhetoric always has real world consequences reminds me that a hundred years ago most people assumed radio had so much power that listeners would blindly obey whatever they heard on it. Granting powerful media effects to a new medium seems to be typical.

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Boy, people really are obsessed with finding these extreme examples of human behavior, choosing a side pro/or con, and then ranting about it ad nauseum on the internet. "They're a victimized group. They need our help!" "No, they're sickos trying to destroy the world!" And then there's the "Bob is a man. Bob hates his mom. Therefore, men hate women" school of logic.

Willy Weirdo posts on 4chan his fantasy of lopping off his girlfriends toes with a floppy disk = 20,000 tweets/retweets.

37 people shot last weekend in Chicago. Crickets.

Logic and proportion have fallen sloppy dead.

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Oct 21, 2022Liked by Jesse Singal

Just wanted to affirm Naamas point about a lot of us just wanting to be listened to and heard. Being an awkward low status man can be lonely af. I have often wished I had a therapist I could talk to but thats not an affordable option for me.

I used to read and post on r/incelswithouthate before reddit banned all incel communities. And while it was a depressing and sometimes negative place it was cathartic reading stories I could relate to. I enjoy Naamas podcast (and I am grateful to her) for the same reasons.

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I’m completely on board with the double standard phenomenon.

I loathe nothing more than double standards and my experience of feminism and the women who espouse it is replete with examples of blatant, readily acknowledged double standards.

If it’s “empowering” for women to verbally bash men, the same is true for men verbally bashing women.

Welcome to equality!

Hopefully I’ll have time this weekend to listen.

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Oct 20, 2022·edited Oct 20, 2022

"Now with online culture, that private stuff becomes public, in all its bitterness and ugliness, and people reading things they probably shouldn’t."

This is very important. I can't tell you how many times I read angry online "progressive" rhetoric, assumed it was talking about me, and started having a panic attack. It's all very triggering for me.

Fortunately, I think I've gotten better at avoiding that stuff and trying to just be a kind person and live a normal life. Not everyone is an angry online progressive. Not even close.

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This is the evil of Identity Politics when it comes to Gender. We need to stop speaking of men in general terms except when it comes to male biology; we also need to stop speaking of women in general terms except when it comes to female biology.

But with Identity Politics we do the opposite: we generalize based on Gender Identity and dismiss biology as a made up illusion.

Being male is obviously very painful for the millions of men who commit suicide every year, along with the millions of lonely men who identify as Incels. Being male is not a one-way ticket to happiness and in fact seems to be a much greater burden than menstrual cramps and unwanted pregnancy.

I'm not saying that being a woman is a walk in the park, but I am saying that being male is just as hard, but in different ways.

We need to stop pretending that men have it easier than women and start looking at the ways in which men are suffering, too.

Richard Reeves book comes close to identifying this, but then throws men under the bus by claiming they can't control their sexual urges and are developmentally delayed compared to women.

I don't think either of those things are true.

I just think in many subcultures men are more likely to be bullied for caring about school, and they are definitely bullied for not embracing a chimplike attitude toward sex.

Men deserve compassion as much as women do, and they deserve to be free from negative stereotypes as much as women do - including lonely incels.

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The Washington Post published an article (op-ed) titled “Why Can’t We Hate Men?”. Would they have dared to publish an article (op-ed) titled "Why Can't We Hate Women"? Of course, not. Anti-male bigotry is normal on the left and in the media (but I repeat myself).

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Here's why I don't buy the incel-violence connection. At least 47% of men in prison are fathers. Most men who commit firearm violence have kids, often with multiple women. Incels are lonely, low-status men. Most violent criminals are popular, high-status men, and they are highly sexually active, according to the statistics on birth rates of key demographics.

However, just because most violence isn't committed by so-called incels doesn't make the existence of people like this who might get an AR-15 and shoot up a public place any less terrifying.

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William Costello’s recent interview on Justin Lehmiller’s podcast was eye opening. Lehmiller’s questions are carefully discussed and presented with honest curiosity.

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